Are all martial arts jujitsu?

Question

As a jujitsu practitioner I've come across a very interesting website that states "it's all jujitsu". Would it make you mad if you knew that you art came from my art? Did you even know that your art sprang from mine? Did you even know that "Jujitsu" is the "Grand father" of all martial arts?

Source: http://www.alljujitsu.com/index.html <---please read entire page before answering my question please then take a look at the actual documented facts of the matter.

Answer 1

Okay William I've read your link, and maybe a few months back I'd agree but not now....Why ????

Well I went to a Tai chi class with an chief instructor who's older than myself and has been doing Chi Tai and various kung fu styles since he was 6yrs old and he impressed the hell out of me.



I asked him to demonstrate every move in the Tai Chi 24 Taijiquan form and it was almost identical to jiu-jitsu, for example he applied on myself the parting the horses mane with throw.



And in jiu-jitsu terms it consisted of a straight arm lock and outer hook throw. The only difference being jiu-jitsu would pull in and elbow the face and break the arm, where as Tai chi would strike the ribs and/ or break the arm and throw.



Hence why I've joined Tai chi as I've seen many jiu-jitsu,Aikido moves in it to deem it more than an old man in the park art.



Sorry I'm a realist and I was convinced personally of its effectiveness.



Best wishes :)***

Answer 2

Hi William!



An interesting article. I don't believe Jujitsu/Jujutsu to be all martial arts or the origin, and I'd like to answer all your questions with just one answer...



Many people talk about the origin of martial arts and have an opinion on which style sprung from where, who was directly resonsible for what and so on and so forth, but if we think about what martial arts truly is, and the reason it has come into being in different areas all over the world, not just in one secluded area then spreading elsewhere...it becomes very apparent that it is impossible to identify where and who martial arts came from becomes you will not have any true documentation or 'facts' from that far back , as many humans in every corner of the world would have had to survive and developed their own 'way' of training for this. You may get documentation of a formalised school but martial arts, in truth, has been around from the dawn of humankind (including our ancestors). I know this is a lofty answer but it is in answer to the question you have posted.



Out of personal interest, what would it matter if we knew the answer to your question or indeed it was correct what was put in the article? The way people train today is very varied in the martial art world, due to many many stratagies and applications. We can only make a real positive impact with the time we have now so lets get training for the good of martial arts and leave the origins to the historians who will never know the true answer anyway!



Keep the Faith!



Ade Finch

The Way Of The Internal Gate

www.internalgate.co.uk

Answer 3

No all martial arts are not jujitsu.



There are many martial arts that were birthed out of jujitsu. Like:

judo, karate, aikido, and on some levels tkd.



The current craze BJJ comes from Judo which came from Jujitsu.



But you should also realize that boxing, wrestling are considered martial arts. They do not have an Eastern culture influence.



Capoeira is a martial arts that originated by African in Brazil.



Let's not forgot Kung Fu. It was the chinese martial arts the birth the Japanese martial arts.

Answer 4

Having not read the article in it entirety, I can say (without having read it at all) that not all martial arts are jujitsu. Even jujitsu as we know it is a relatively modern art, stemming from older systems. This could be the true "grand father" of several arts including aikido, judo, modern jujitsu and arguably the korean art hapkido; but along side these is brother jujitsu.



From the original we get the offspring of sport fighting (judo), the more spiritual aspect of the art (aikido) and then the boiled down fighting style jujitsu. This form of jujitsu usually has completely removed the classical armour (although techniques utilizing the gi for leverage are inherited from this) and most weapons training (many schools still teach weapons but not necessarily legitimately inherited through jujitsu training).

Answer 5

Interesting. I think he missed the point, though...



In Japan, there's a concept of Taijutsu -- the skills required by the body for carrying out a job. Everyone has taijutsu: the baker, the warrior, the prostitute. From the whole of the warriors taijutsu (budo taijutsu), various forms splintered off into schools and became specialized. Koppojutsu, kosshijutsu, jujutsu, aikijutsu, etc. all came from this concept of taijutsu. Now, to say that all Japanese martial arts came from China or that all Chinese martial arts came from India is foolish. Those arts that were brought over combined with their own way of fighting. They were nothing new, just a refinement.



Now, if we want to get technical, it's all taijutsu. By this, I don't mean it's all a Japanese art, but that its all a human art (and I simply know the Japanese word to describe it) and that we're all seeking the same conclusion: to find the most efficient way to fight. Two arms, two legs, one head. And that's only on average. One of the Soke of Gikan Ryu Koppojutsu only had one arm. But that rough body idea is what all martial arts are based on.



To directly face his argument, he starts out with a false and unsupportable conclusion ("It's all jujitsu!") then offers further false premises which he doesn't bother to support, then changes his argument ("It's all in jujitsu!" is a very different thing). The entire argument is illogical, so it really warrants only one response:



Shut up and train.

Answer 6

A key quote:



"All those other types of martial arts, or at least the skills that make them up, were at some point INTRODUCED INTO Japan"



So not all martial arts came from jujitsu.



It was just chinese martial arts actually that were introduced into Japan, I think. Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Modern Boxing, Savate, Eskrima, Pankration weren't introduced, as well as many others.



It's a bit contradictory to say that it's the best because all martial arts came from it and then say it's the best because it was made from all martial arts. You could do the same thing with pretty much any martial art.

Answer 7

Bullshido....



Besides, if jujitsu is the "Gradfather of all martial arts," and Taekwondo came out of the Japanese systems, would it not then make sense that Taekwondo is a perfected form of Jujitsu? By the logic presented in your website, that would be the case.



Beisdes, I have never seen a Jujitsu (be it BJJ or JJJ) player utilize much in the way of striking - at least not as part of their jujistu training. Usually, they say they get their striking from some OTHER martial art.

Answer 8

I have to disagree. All martial arts have a member thinking they are in the best martial art, this is a good thing; the best one is the one which works for you. The site overuses the right of personal opinion. I'd rather choose a martial arts through feed back from people I know, than a site boasting with brainwashing repeated messages. ITS ALL JUJITSU OOH WOW!



Just hypothetically thinking in my head, it can't have all come from the one thing. Think about it, there are martial arts all over Asia anciently invented when they couldn't travel that far. Therefore unless there is one guy who spent his whole life traveling over Asia teaching people the same thing, and then having them listen to him then the most ancient martial arts cannot be the same.



I do think that some of the later modifications have similarities between them.



Anyway, that site is just like other sites trying to convince you that their martial art is best. See the bottom? It's just contact details to sign you up!



Overall, I have nothing against Jujitsu, it's just that site. It seems insulting to every martial art, and then the tack of that site just insults itself.



**note, the site says the other martial arts of Asia migrated to Japan and probably formed the core of Jujitsu, doesn't that mean it didn't all come from Jujitsu and that they just took other techniques?



Anyway, my brother did Jujitsu and quit it because he didn't like it, he wasn't allowed to wear glasses in training and couldn't see properly.



The site also boasts to give you a black belt in one year? and doesn't mention testing. It boasts of being 3 times faster than other martial arts schools. I might have my critics by saying you can't learn and apply perfectly however many moves there are in a year. It would be like having a special school promising year 12 diplomas to five year olds claiming they will automatically succeed and bragging the school is faster than the traditional ways. Oh and then those who couldn't get to school would watch a DVD and be emailed a tacky wordart certificate with purchase.



Anyway, the site also offers about one ten locations in the whole of the USA, and for those who can not get to them they buy the DVD! Sorry, I don't believe you can learn much from a dvd.



I don't have proof, I don't have the time to find it. I can just look at the site and see through it. Anyway, sorry for the rave. I seriously have nothing against Jujitsu, it didn't work for my brother because he has no coordination or discipline. That was just my opinion of the site.



Have fun reading that, it's almost as long as the site was!

Lara.

Answer 9

By attempting to tell us what karate is and does and contains he reveals he has no knowledge of karate at least not to any extent or depth.



He is selling black belts over the internet to the gullible and naive wannabe's .



Which came 1st the chicken or the egg?You could argue the egg came 1st as the chicken hatched from the egg or the chicken came 1st as it had to lay the egg 1st.

Actually they both came about by the process of evolution .Some creatures layed eggs some gave live birth and I suspect it was pretty much the same with grappling arts and striking arts.They evolved side by side and crossed over at many junctures along the way.Karate contains locks and throws JUJUTSU contains strikes .



Because the human species is a thinking creative animal they explored and discovered things about themselves and the human body no available science at the time could teach them.What is the most effective way for a small man to throw a larger stronger opponent and defeat him .What is the most effective way to strike to accomplish the same purpose..

All this info was kept strictly secret within familys tribes and groups and many very effective methods have dissapeared over the years.



Weapons developement made unarmed combat a secondary skill and I feel this is where specialization developed .Consider a soldier highly skilled in unarmed combat but without a knowledge of how to use weapons .He would be very quickly dead.Grappling arts in japan grew quickly because that was your best bet against someone who was armed and you weren't.However their jujutsu was not what you see today .Submission was not a priority killing was so various strikes were used to accomplish this purpose once the weapon was controlled.

The martial arts we practice today are bunminjutsu or civilian adaptations of former military arts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover these military elements in our arts.Which is why I always laugh at questions like"what is the deadliest art or most effective".

My answer is "how deadly are you"as they all have the potential to be purely killing arts.



I have a DAN rank in AIKIJUTSU the art on which AIKIDO was developed in the early 1900s .We were required after completing a lock or throw to reach to our right hip as if drawing a dagger and make a stabbing motion to the throat which was a vulnarable point in samurai armor.This was later "modernized" to a knife hand to the neck and recently eliminated altogrther. relying on the lock or throw to do the job.

In the early years of AIKIDO it's founder said "my art is 90% striking"so no one who's take on it is based on modern adaptations is going to convince he knows anything about what one art or the other contains or doesn't contain.

Answer 10

Well aside from this guy wanting to teach Martial Arts over the Internet or Correspondance courses I have a few problems.



One he doesn't actually document anything, but I certainly can agree that MANY if not MOST Japanese Martial Arts came from Jujitsu. However they added other techniques and modified them and became more specialized and because different.



Just like ALL medicine comes from Hippocrates... the fact that it has been heavily modified and evolved makes today's medicine almost entirely different than that of which Hippocrates used, it is like opening a school for Medicine using entirely the Hippocratic system of medince and humors and stating "Why learn that other medicine, it all came from Hippocrates!"



But more importantly... ALL Martial Arts are not Japanese.



I can promise you Mongolion Folk Wrestling has no influence from Jujitsu.



Muay Thai kickboxing has no ties to Jujitsu.



Capoeira.. no ties



Afrikan fighting arts--no ties..



Pankration has no ties to Jujitsu, etc. etc. In fact if you believe the hype of other people selling their art, one could argue that Jujitsu and most Martial Arts came from Pankration, and the conquering of Alexander the Great. That his greek soldiers taught Indians hand to hand Martial Arts, Indians in turn taught the Chinese, Chinese in turn taught Japanese...etc. etc.



The truth is there is no father of all Martial Arts, and if there was it certainly wasn't Japanese in origin, as their trade routes were small and influence globally was minimal until two hundred years or so.



So honestly these kind of claims are had to make, and pretty much impossible to substantiate, especially given that there are Martial Arts from all over the world, that have no ties to Jujitsu.



Additionally, this "source" doesn't actually give any historical documentation, other than his own words. He is a Godan, and he is trying to sell people Jujitsu online...



I would be wary of anyone trying to teach you any art online, via correspondance course, or video series, and I certainly don't consider their word gospel.



It's not that I dislike Jujitsu, I agree with a lot of what he is saying.. as Jujitsu being the father of many JAPANESE Martial Arts. I would disagree with it being the grandfather of Kung Fu or Chinese arts.. (that have been around far longer than Jujitsu, and are in fact believed to be the source of Martial Arts introduction into Japan and Okinawa). Nor does it have anything remotely to do with most other Martial Arts that are not of Japanese nature, aside from BJJ. BJJ came from Judo, Judo came from Jujitsu, yes we all know that.



Many Karate masters cross trained with Jujitsu before founding their own style of Karate... ok.. I can agree to that.



Aikido came from Jujitsu, yup I would agree with that. I don't think anyone would argue against those claims.



But Kung Fu? Not buying that.



And again... "ALL Other Martial Arts" again would completely disagree with that, shown as above.



But hey, I'm not trying to sell anything. I have just done some hobbist study of the history of many Martial Arts, Hoplogy, and a little bit of common sense.

Answer 11

Kirby has been saying that for years.



It does not coincide historically.



I have not read the article but I intend to, because I love to read about all MA's except for the fake crap.



Now, I will be the first one to tell someone that Jujutsu (yes, I always use the correct pronunciation) is a great art. I trained with Jujutsu practitioners as many of my closest friends are.



But... no.



Especially Chinese MA. Hell No!!!



JWBulldogs - karate did NOT come from Jujutsu. You are dead wrong on that. Not even Japanese karate for that matter!



The Okinawans had a grappling art called "ti" = "hand" before the Chinese Cultural Exchange during the 1300's - before the so-called "discovery of the new world".



The Okinawans did not have good relations with the Japanese but they did have great relations with the Chinese. That is where many of the similarities in the arts stem from.



Also, I don't know if any documentation exist to back up this claim, but it is said that the Katana is fashioned after a Chinese sword. So the art of the Samurai has borrowed from others. Some say it was fashioned after the Scimitar. I say - remember that there have been Chinese Muslims since before the crusades. Let's not forget the Chinese Jews of Kaifeng - who trace their descendants to the ancient Israelites.



So Jujutsu is not as old as Kirby-san wants to make it out to be. That would mean that the Israelites practiced it.



Like I said, I give it its props. I worked out with JJ guys.



But - neh!

Answer 12

Sorry bro, he's trying real hard to make a sell, maybe a little too hard in my book. Besides him saying it doesn't make it verifiable fact.

He contradicts himself in his own article, he calls jiu jitsu the grand father of all martial arts and then says that the development of jiu jitsu was influenced by China. Chinese martial arts in the meantime were influenced by several styles of Silat that are known to have existed priorly.

As katana said there are also several styles that couldn't have been influenced by jiu jitsu.

He makes some valid points and is right about early jiu jitsu being a full martial art covering all ranges. I also have no doubt that it has influenced many other arts, but being the basis for pretty much all. No way.

He strikes me as a snake oil salesman, trying a little too hard to convince and sell. Get your black belt on line or on DVD?!?! WTF!!!!

If we are going to get down to it, pancrase as developed in Greece is far far older and from what records have been recovered was a full range art with both stand up and ground fighting, or maybe some Japanese jiu jitsu master time traveled back to teach them.

William P, no offense bro I like a lot of what you have to say on here even when I don't agree, but I think this dude is full of it and just trying to sell himself and his style.

Answer 13

All that I can add is that my style of karate (wado-ryu) was derived from jujitsu. While still a student of Funakoshi, Ohtsuka Sensei began to experiment with various sparring ideas and jujitsu techniques. Ohtsuka Sensei wanted to incorporate Shindo Yoshin’s jujitsu techniques with Funakoshi’s karate techniques to create what he felt was a more complete system and left Funakoshi to create what is now known as Wado Ryu. Ohtsuka Sensei also studied with and borrowed ideas from other karate notables such as Kenwa Mabuni, the founder of Shito Ryu, and Choki Motobu, famous for his Naihanchi kata and street fighting skills.



Wado Ryu is different from many karate styles in that Ohtsuka Sensei did not believe in the use of the makiwara to toughen the parts of the body used for striking. Also missing from Wado are the hard contact elements of sparring. Wado students learn to use taisabaki (body shifting) to avoid the full force of an attack while at the same time positioning the body for an effective counterattack.

Answer 14

Sorry William, but I have to disagree with this, especially when it comes to karate. He never says or proves anywhere that Okinawan karate came from Ju Jitsu, and talks mainly about Funikoshi and Japanese karate.



I can understand how he could make that argument, however some of his facts are decidedly messed up. or one thing if you follow the first link at the end of the page it will take you to a chart that has Akido, Judo, Karate, and Ju Jitsu and comparisons on what they contain. According to him karate does not contain standing holds or locks, no soft blocks, no throws, no chokes, and no controling opponents. Karate not haiving these will come as a real shock to my instructor who teaches all of them, and to the other Okinawan karate teachers I have met that also train them.



Not saying his statements about Japanese karate might not be accurate, but I know that you realize there is a huge difference between that and Okinawin karate. I just would not trust somebody who was stating what he is stating simply to get people to buy his product, and I definetly don't trust someone who says you can get your black belt on the internet.



This is no offense intended to you at all, but I don't buy it. Judo and Akido definetly, karate, especially Okinawin karate, not so much however I do know that originally some of the Okinawins did learn some Ju Jitsu, and Kung Fu not at all. Then there are arts like savate, capoeria, kali, escrima, etc. that could have in no way been influenced by Ju Jitsu.

Answer 15

Martial arts was in China before it was in Japan. jujitsu is a grappling style, so it couldn't lead to striking styles. The quote is nonsense to anyone who knows much about martial arts.

Answer 16

i dont even know what to think of it...

im sure theres truths about some martial arts being influenced and perfected into others...but all in all, it got shady when he tried to sell me something at the end...he did make a good sell, but maybe a little overagressive in the absolutism...

ill make up my mind on my own

Answer 17

Would it make you mad if you knew that your art came from my ancestors? Because there is some proof that all arts come from the Afrikans of Ancient Egypt after they discovered drawings of people doing grappling in pyramids. In fact, in the ancient Egyptian language:



Ka = body/soul

Ra = energy/chi/ki/force

Te = hand



So they all draw from Jujitsu. And? So? And Jujitsu draws from earlier arts that may have been called Ka Ra Te. And? So?



So what.

Answer 18

Jiu-jitsu is the grandfather of all Japanese martial arts. Historians agree that the only two indegenous developments in Japan were: 1. the Shinto religion, and 2. Jiu-Jitsu; everything else was borrowed from the mainland.



Please visit this informative website on the history of the martial arts:



http://www.hoplology.com



Hoplology is the study of the history of all the martials arts in the world.

Answer 19

Hi there



I wouldnt get too upset by the webpage's claims. They should first learn how to spell jujutsu correctly before making such bold statements!



Secondly arts are born from history and enviroment. They are all trying to teach the same thing and thats natural movement.



Funny thing is 90 percent of jujutsu practitioners couldnt tell you which koryu style their art comes from?



So all arts come from jujutsu which koryu ryu ha would that be then?



Brazil?



Take a look at the list and please tell me which line modern jujutsu comes from?



http://www.koryu.com/guide/ryuguide.html



Best wishes



idai

Answer 20

in the literal sense of the word yes it is just as it's all kung fu

ju jitsu or jiu jitsu or ju jutsu depending on your preference

literally refers to fighting arts. every kind of fighting art can be seen as ju jitsu. I think that in embracing the chinese martial arts the japanese also integrated the concept of the word kung fu in to their language Kung fu in itself is also a general term which means skill.

but the main source of the techniques in the eastern martial arts originated in China and northern India

Answer 21

are piñatas(mexican martial art) also jiu-jitsu?



because i mean, its in mexico

so i assume its kind of hard to get an asian martial art base in it



just wondering

Answer 22

Jujitsu is more effective I know I"M probably going to have a torch welding mob of Karate users show up at my house for saying this but Karate doesn't work as well. I would suggest you take a look at the UFC it started as a tournament pitting different arts ageist each other. Long story shot you still see Jujitsu used there today because it works Karate you don't see because it doesn't. you well also see that people who are good at striking lose to people who are good at grappling. Karate is still a ton of fun and is not a bad thing to learn Jujitsu is just better for fighting.

Answer 23

Hahahaha I believe that guy knows what he's talking about like you'd believe me if I said I was abducted by aliens. haha that was great, thanks for the laugh William.



I like how he says everything came from Japan then retracts it saying the Japanese only perfect it/everything.



Just too much. It was s good laugh though. I'd love to visit one of his seminars and see him in action.



"With my jujutsu I can teach you how to stop a bullet!"

Answer 24

sorry. that article doesnt prove anything dude.



i'm no martial arts expert but even i can see that article really says nothing.

Answer 25

i don't think so. you have no idea ,try a search on martial arts.

Answer 26

So by that logic, I guess we are all speaking latin. After all, there is latin in all of the modern non Asian languages.



It's all latin!



James