Are forbidden martial art techniques real?

Question

Or is it just some bad saturday morning cartoon plot device?

Answer 1

Yes and no. Anything can be "forbidden", it just depends on the one doing the forbidding and the ethical reasons behind it. The Shaolin kept the 72 consummate arts closely guarded and many other groups and schools did the same. Now it's the 21st century and a lot fo things are out in the open. All someone has to do is have a discerning ear and willing to devote some none-cell phone time practicing it.



There is a lot in the martial art world and I doubt one single person could ever know them all. It's a big world filled with many distractions.

Answer 2

It has been answered pretty well already but a quick bit on my part and an example.





In India and the middle east they are usually said to be killing techniques and 'forbidden' in exactly the context you refer to, though a lot of people conclude it is teachers refusing to be critiqued by outsiders. They insist you only use them if you are going to both kill the opponent and all witnesses so it is probably the closest to the stereotyped forbidden techniques.



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In most other cases the forbidden techniques where just ones kept secret, for numerous reasons as others have stated. A reason on top of those is



-Often it is a case of rock paper scissors, where you want to hide the fact your style has scissors until the opponent tries to use paper, then you kill them and keep how you did it hidden so everyone thinks you still use rock.



At a few stages in a martial artists training 'forbidden' or hidden moves are the way forward, you have learned and partially 'mastered' the basics and the next step is to see every trick in the book first hand, the tricks are hidden techniques.



Imagine if all you knew was boxing and suddenly the opponent headbutted you, you thought you were safe because his fists were nowhere near you. This is a contrived example but is a big stage for a martial artist, think of it as the stage where they have learned their art and now have to start on the road to mastering martial arts in the context of the outside world and other styles.



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Last bit is - for many years the lunge used in fencing with rapiers was a 'hidden' technique among the Italian schools, because no one had considered the idea of throwing themselves towards the enemy in such a way, and once you saw it, it was usually too late as you had a sword through your gut or groin, but now it is so intrinsic to fencing that unless you are well read on the subject someone sugesting this is hard to beleive.

Answer 3

I can't say it any better than this, so I'll let someone far wiser than I say it:



“Keeping techniques a secret is for the sake of the beginners and if we don’t keep them secret we won’t gain their trust,” is nothing more than one method. Therefore, once you start keeping them secret, it is the end to all things; for the gokui (secrets) of the teachings are not , by nature, the hidden techniques. If the beginner listens carelessly, however, and misunderstands the teachings, that is another matter. In that case, while it may on the contrary be harmful for the student, it will in no way be beneficial for them. Therefore, if the student is one who is unable to understand, he or she should not be taught carelessly. Even when it comes to the depths of the art, even if it's not a student, as long as it's a serious, enthusiastic person, there should be no need to hide the techniques. However, even though it's not necessary to hide the techniques, it can be dangerous if they are disclosed, so some secrecy may be necessary, depending on the technique. In fact, much of the secrecy is the way that the art of war should be. Also, some teachers may hide the techniques because they dislike them being seen and evaluated by others. Anyhow, this is not something that can be judged sweepingly, and in the end it's not easy to say whether keeping techniques a secret is right or wrong. –– 岩城 英男 (Iwaki Hideo)



@Keyboard Warrior: Most people have the same interpretation that you do: That the "forbidden technique" is somehow some mystical secret kyusho strike that renders him dead with one strike. Generally, what gets translated as "Forbidden" are "Gokui" or "Hiden"... The secret teachings. Usually, these boil down to a high level break down of a very basic technique. Perhaps it's a way to move the body when performing Osoto Gake that you take the attacker straight down on his spine. Perhaps it's the kuden that explains the proper positioning to use Ganseki Otoshi against an armed assailant. Sure, the fine points of vital point striking are taught through Kuden, but they're taught to help you understand the "optimal scenario", not the only option, and they're woven into every technique.

Answer 4

Well, some techniques are more discouraged than others. For example, sacrifice throws (sutemi-waza) in Judo are especially cautioned because they require the user (tori) to put themselves in dangerous positions. Haymakers are discouraged in most martial arts due to being easily countered. Whether or not you consider that "forbidden" is up to you.



If we're talking about sports fighting, then the answer is a lot simpler. Yes, some techniques are prohibited in competition. There is a list of forbidden techniques (kinshi-waza) in Judo tournaments. Also, you're not gonna see a professional boxer kick someone in the 'nads.



It's a question of ethics, as well. If someone personally deems a technique too dangerous, they may never use it or teach it.



I'm sorry if you wanted a more Dim Mak-esque answer. If those types of techniques truly exist, they've probably been kept secret or something. (: Haha!

Answer 5

Not really forbidden, just guarded by honor and competitiveness.



It's just like if you ask someone who always wins in competitions and such, and you ask what his secret is, chances are he won't tell you. Because it's his technique that is earning him wins and he doesn't want anyone else to know it.



Generally it's the same thing. Hundreds of years ago, sword work and hand-to-hand combat were basically the only attack and defense of militaries and civilians. Countries would come up with their own killer techniques to kill their enemies. Of course they were not gonna tell them.



This legacy is still carried on, many techniques are lost to humanity because the people who knew them all died out without teaching anybody their secrets.



That's why if you travel to Asian countries to learn a martial art, you may get the chance to lear some very secret techniques. These are only taught to the best of the best students that not only show skill, but show that they are trustworthy.



An example of a small style of these techniques are know to mainly Shotokan Karate Grandmasters, but they do teach some students if their lucky.



It is a small list of techniques that can stop the heart with a single blow. Before you go on about how it's impossible, it's not. A few years ago in Canada, an 18 year old Ice Hockey player got hit to a vulnerable area and died from a single shot that stopped his heart.



I cannot tell you the exact technique or area to attack for these techniques, as I do not know them myself (I wouldn't tell you anyway :P) but they are open hand strikes somewhere around the heart.







As for 'Forbidden' techniques, they do exist I guess. Examples are the arts of Muay Boran and Pankration.



Muay Boran was the ancestor of Muay Thai. It was a series of deadly killing techniques and vicious attacks that was outlawed sometime at the start of the 1900's. Then all Muay Boran masters were forbidden from teaching Muay Boran techniques, but then the cleaned up sport of Muay Thai came out. It had certain rules and protective gear and was minus of the killer techniques.



Muay Thai was legal, but Muay Boran was not legal again until recent years, where people have tried to re-create the art, as most masters had died.



So with Muay Boran, some techniques were legal, then forbidden and now lost.





Now for Pankration.



Pankration was a Hybrid combat sport that was one of the most popular sports in the Ancient Olympic Games. It was brutal. When the Ancient Olympic games came to an end. Pankration was outlawed. It was only taught to the Greek Military.



Eventually it died out, with the techniques lost to humanity. However, in the 1990's historians found carvings of Pankration in stone, and Martial Artists re-created the art. However, about half of the techniques cannot be recovered. Once again, was once legal, forbidden and now lost.



Hope this helps.

Answer 6

Very eloquent answer OC Bujinkan, and a good counter to the 'touch of death' so often touted.



Forbidden, is as each society deems it so. Martial arts are governed by a code of ethics; each system and each school may have different codes of ethics, but they are there. It's only a sociological term meant to keep people from causing unwarranted harm to others.



The 36 vital points were at one time forbidden, and there are others that are still the same, yet only mentioned in a few places throughout history. The 36 vital points are today, exploited by people who try and get paid for teaching self defense. The points are generally easy enough to get to, and can cause severe trauma or even death. These points are no more mystical than the fact that you have to take a crap after eating food.



There are other points that may seem forbidden, simply because of the physiological reaction that the receiver's body has to the technique.



Some techniques that are forbidden are so because of their 'spiritual impact' and are indeed more of the esoteric 'hocus pocus' like damming the soul. This is where Dim Mak gets crazy. I won't go into further detail on this but it's there if you know where to look and how to ask. Many of the techniques are to places on the body that one simply cannot feasibly get to in a fight for life, and are to be done after the person is already dead, if they are sleeping, etc.



Generally, and more realistically, I would side with OC Bujinkan's modern interpretation of 'forbidden' simply being a hidden technique that one won't learn until they know how to see.



@ Keyboard Warrior -



I have used specific points during self defense situations and they have worked just fine, if not better than I could have imagined. The thing that many people don't seem to understand, is that it is all in how one trains. (Yes, yes, I know, beating a dead horse here... but people still don't get it.) One of the guys in my dojo, to this day says that pressure points will not work in a real fight, because we can't remember the combinations, etc... He's been in martial arts his entire life mind you, is older, and has also fought to survive in the Philippines. The thing he, along with the many others out there miss, is the combinations are already built in to the kata we practice. One technique strikes all of the necessary points to get its desired result. The problem is people don't know where they are, or how to find that out. Much worse off are those trying to find out how to train so they only react with proper technique, as opposed to regressing back into the slam dancing fighting...



Aiming for a 'magical point' on another person is just as well as aiming for the person's nose, liver, etc. If you train to fight that way it will be natural and not impossible.



Just as a final heads up, many of the original 36 vital points are in fact 'forbidden' techniques for mma; not all, but most. I'm sure if they could determine the medical impact of some of the other points often used, that they would reduce their legality as well...



Edit -



One more thing... If pressure points are a bunch of malarky, then why are the armed forces teaching them to the soldiers? I've been in the military so I do know that they teach quite a few points used in martial arts traditionally.

Answer 7

Alex, The lack of popularity of Chinese martial arts is primarily due to marketing (or a lack of marketing). My guess is that few people think of Bruce Lee any more outside of the martial arts community. I imagine that the average American can't tell you the basis for the martial art techniques used by Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan or Jet Li or most other martial artists for that matter. Judo and Taekwondo have gained notoriety because of strong international organizations and their inclusion in the Olympics. The popularity of Karate is primarily due to the Karate Kid movies and the notoriety of Chuck Norris. Although Chuck Norris actually practiced Tang Soo Do (a Korean martial art), his initial fame was due to his six year reign as the International Karate Championships middleweight champion. Afterwards, his fame was solidified through a series of moderately successful movies and his television series.

Answer 8

I've never heard of any "forbidden" techniques, but I may just not have practiced long enough. What you forbid is at your discretion and based on your threat assessment. If you are not in danger of being killed, don't kill the other person. If the other guy is out for blood, do whatever it takes to walk away alive.

Answer 9

As pointed out by the others, forbidden is relative to the context it is used. Case in point, in most Jujitsu tournaments I've seen, the rules state that cervical techniques or techniques targeting the spine are forbidden to prevent accidental injuries that could lead to paralysis.

Answer 10

Sort of. They exist...to an extent. But how well they work in a combat situation is debatable. I always use this example when were talking about forbidden and the d34dly. Imagine a crack head, who hates you with the utmost intensity, who's only goal is kill you, coming at you with a knife, high on whatever, so he can't feel a thing, and he's not gonna stop until you kill him. You try your "forbidden" neck chop of death. How on earth are you gonna land that, when he's coming at you full force?



Watch video's of people fighting. Everyone's throwing punches, struggling to get a hit. It's not coordinated at all, like it is in the movies. People are flailing their arms everywhere in the hopes of getting the knockout. It's not easy. I'm not say its impossible. But its not easy to pull off....so try something you know that will work, and isn't difficult to pull off.

Answer 11

Yes, there are forbidden techniques within a discipline.

Answer 12

I wouldn't say 'forbidden' so much. But many things are reserved to be taught to more advanced people, and some are NEVER taught to some others. There is one technique I have taught to only a few women, which makes them almost instantly 'rape resistant' in the extreme. I teach it to so few people, because of the danger it could present to the public in the wrong hands. Therefore it is forbidden (simply hidden, or never mentioned) to some, but not to others.



edit: this technique I refer to isn't "deadly" in any manner at all, but results in a badly broken arm.

Answer 13

they exist but just rarely taught because its FORBIDDEN but still taught so it won't be used by mistake from just a chance

Answer 14

Maybe.

I'm forbidden to talk about it.

Answer 15

the secret is there are no secrets

Answer 16

Yes, they are.