Needless meditation in the martial arts....bad experience....?

Question

Having been a student of the martial arts for a few decades now, I have studied with a good number of instructors, some very gifted and forward thinking, some not so much. One thing I have noticed and which really bothers me is that some traditional instructors practically force deep meditation techniques on students. Without going into details, I used to practice such meditations and had some bad experiences. I even had friends and classmates who began to see things, I myself began to hallucinate and it was creepy. My instructor said it was a sign of progress with regard to chi, but I disagree. It's a needless practice in my opinion. However, my meditation experiences were something that still kind of bother me to this day. From one martial artist to another, would any of you be kind enough to share what some (if any) of your bad experiences have been with these deep, guided meditation practices? I'd really appreciate it to know I'm not alone.

Answer 1

Tomodachi gave a great answer. My own training has never been in any martial arts school where meditation was part of the training.



To be clear on the subject of "meditation", lets be sure you understand that meditation means different things to different people. All forms of meditation can be classified into one of two types.



A) a form of relaxing and clearing your mind by assuming a relaxed position, relaxing the body, and thinking pleasant thoughts, for a few moments at most.



B) a practice where the person is supposed to concentrate on some obscure thought or idea that when done often takes not a mystical attitude or appearance to others observing. Often when these things are practiced the practitioners many seem to others as if the are following a cult.



In any case meditation is in no way seen often in the many martial arts styles practiced around the world. a few styles tend to have meditation as part of the training. Most styles do not use it in any form.



Note: I have been involved in training that did not use meditation. Many years ago I chose to try it. After several years of this on a daily basis, I had something freaky happen that to this day makes me believe that the type of meditation described by B) is or can be dangerous for the person doing it. Although I don't often use the A) method of this, I do think it can be helpful if you are distracted or tense before training.



Just my thoughts...





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Answer 2

I too at age 55 am a martial artist who went to my share of schools. Most did not include meditation at all. -Thnk Krav Maga, Indonesian styles, most Kempo, Baji, most Karate's, Jeet-kun-Do, and most street fighting styles. On the other hand, some styles have meditation as the focal point and the martial moves work around it. Tai Chi is "moving meditation." But why can hardly anyone with a tai-chi background fight? If they can it is often because they took something practical before starting Tai-Chi. Hsing Yi and I-Chuan have standing in a posture meditation as the center of it all. The goal is to circulate your chi, and here's where it gets practical....it attempts to lengthen and strengthen your ligaments(not muscles!) for devastating power. The problem I saw with it ,is it takes 5 years or more to even start to see real serious results you'd feel comfortable using on the street.



And them you have schools which use meditation as a warm up or warm down. So there are 3 different possibilities. Here is an interesting story to confuse all of you more.lol One day my Hsing-I TEACHER WHO TAUGHT THE MUSLIM STYLE WHICH IS NO STANCES AND ALL movements are done at 100% power. It is a one strike kill system. I always kept asking him if there is meditation in the system and never got a good answer. One day he tells me that back in China he had a gong-fu brother who all he did was stand in a hugging the tree posture with elbows much closer to the body than most people do it and never lost a fight! My teacher(who claims he never lost a street fight in Shanghai where he studied) So when I asked him why then doesn't he do it, he said "I'm a doctor, I dont have the time." I will interpret this as meaning, once you have a serious amount of training and skill which takes at least 3-10 yrs depending on what you study and with whom, plus your genetics...then and only then cam meditation take you to the next level! If I was not right, then all the millions of old people practicing tai chi in Parks all over china for 30-50 years would all come to the usa and make a fortune as MMA fighters. Anyone feel me on that one? =)

Answer 3

A few things. First, meditation is a specific to Zen (Japanese) and "Chan" (Chinese) Buddhism and is integral with most of the martial arts associated with those countries.

Indeed, with the Japanese arts that refined into "non-combat" arts after the Meiji Restoration... Zen was part and parcel of what was being done.

It's been said that the entire manner of instruction in these arts is designed not so much to have the student become an effective fighter but to have him/her attain a Zen spiritual experience.



So... Your "traditional" instructor is just being "traditional".



Now... Whether this meditation is actually effective or beneficial or anything else... That's rather difficult to quantify. There have been some scientific studies lately in the field of "neuroplasticity" (your brain can literally be changed physically through meditation) which indicate that you can literally "change your mind" through the practice of "mindfullness" meditation.

However, that's rather controversial and not well-studied yet... And it's not known if this will make you a better karateka or not....

Note that dozens of other martial systems do not do any meditation whatever and they seem to do OK.



If it turns you off... Try something different.

Answer 4

If you meditate to see things you are really off the wall. That is not really what meditation is for and especially not in martial art.

People call many things meditation and like all things you can use it for self improvement or you can abuse it. In martial art it should be to slow your breathing, clear your mind and focus on your learning. In Taiji since it is done in a standing position it also includes finding your physical balance so your standing pose does not wobble back and forth (the idea that chi is pulling you making you wobble is ludicrous) and relaxing your muscles.

I have heard about people doing what you say, and I also have had class mates who claim that they had weird sensations all the way to seeing things and out of body experiences. I asked 2 of my teachers about this who did the practice of meditation in class and I was told it was to be done the way I described above. Neither teacher said it was done to feel imagined sensations let alone see things and that that was wrong. When people do that it takes away from the learning with people too busy trying to find the mysterious things and missing the basic things. They much rather find the mysterious things thinking it makes them better than everybody else, that by finding them they have more understanding of the art so they are so busy trying to find sensations and they want them so bad that eventually the mind will comply and make those things real to that person.

People come to class with many things on their minds, about what happened at work, what to fix for dinner, chores they have to do when they get home, etc. It is very difficult to learn when the mind is cluttered with so many different things. The meditation is meant to slow down the mind and rid yourself of all these thoughts so you can focus on what is being taught. I do agree with that and have seen the difference it makes in what the student will pick up in class.

I do not believe in guided meditations since it is others putting their thoughts into your thoughts and controlling them. A meditation should be self examination and finding yourself. Noone can do this for you. You should be in control of your body and your mind. Anything else really goes against martial arts principles. People who do meditation the way you describe are really after a different thrill somewhat similar to what a drug addict would be after.

Answer 5

Meditation = deep thought and consideration.



without meditation, we do not have knowledge.



Martial arts requires deep thought, and there are many methods to it: forms, breaking, breathing, silent contemplation.



My guess is, the methods of meditation you were doing were off the wall. Seeing things? That is neither the goal nor the result of meditation. What you were doing was something wholly un-martial.



I have been part of schools whose idea of meditation was to pray. This was a bad experience; I seek religious guidance from my church and pastor, not my martial arts instructor. I do not go to my pastor to pick out parts of the Bible to provide me my self-defense curriculum, and I do not go to my martial arts instructor to provide me my religious instruction. It is hard enough to find the right church and the right martial arts school - why would anyone complicate the search for either by making one a requisite of the other?? So, I soon left these places.



But, I do meditate by practicing my forms, and I meditate by breaking (boards and cinderblocks). Occasionally, I mediate (on the subject of martial arts) by simply sitting under a tree at the fortuitously local arboretum.

Answer 6

You really need to check out "The Depth Factor" meditation program, it's the best, it's been voted as the number 1 meditation program made so far. Here is their official web-site: http://www.thedepthfactor.net



It combines binaural beats and ancient meditation techniques to deliver the best meditation experience. This is perfect course for a beginner or an intermediate. Good luck!

Answer 7

This one has trained with many current and former Buddhist monks from Japan, Korea and China and none of them have ever attempted to force this one or any other student to meditate.

This has been a student of the martial arts for over fifty years...



It seems you studied with instructors whom you did not trust and then did not follow their teachings which must lead one to ask why did you choose to study with them in the first place?



You may have other "western psychological" issues you need to deal with. Good luck with that.





Be well and be wise(r).

Answer 8

Many people don't know how to meditate. You can take most of the things people say about chi with a pinch of salt, because chi doesn't exist.

I got some deep guided meditation practices too. I didn't get any bad experiences, except that I experienced no improvements in physical and mental performance.



I recommend you to read scientific articles about meditations, so you will know how to meditate for real. There are three types of meditation with different effects on the amount of grey matter in your brain:

-Open monitoring meditation

-Automatic self-transcending meditation

-Focused attention meditation



Good luck :) ^_^

Answer 9

This is bs. If you are hallucinating, you either have mental issues that needs psychiatric help or you been abusing drugs and need to get into rehab.

Answer 10

Meditation is useless bullcrap... Has nothing to do with fighting