Your thoughts on martial arts striking styles that do not practise board breaking etc?

Question

I have trained in ITF Taekwon-do for many years and part of the training from green belt level upwards is board breaking, using the techniques learned at that level to break boards, i think this is a good way to test technique and power
As the student advances for example red belt , black tag , 1st dan , they break multiple boards, with the various strikes , kicks they have learned .( of course after serious conditioning )
It is also vital that the student breaks as part of the grading ( rank test ) from green belt upwards.
Black belt level practise breaking tiles , brick etc as part of training , and i really think it is excellent for toughening the striking tools on the body and seeing for yourself your technique and power results .

I have noticed though that some other striking martial arts do not include breaking in their practise , such as some karate styles .
Why do you think this is ? and do you think breaking is a useful training method ?

Thank you

Answer 1

I did "breaking" for years, competitions etc. I honestly think you are wrong in just about every statement you made in your question. Breaking is at best a semi useless skill. It can be a test of power and focus but to what ends? Breaking does NOT translate into fighting skill. You can learn something from it but it is NOT necessary in any way. You can NOT tuff up your body from breaking. Conditioning your body with the proper methods is how you toughen your striking tools. Breaking without conditioning will only get you hurt as you try to break more and more. At the school I attend we still break boards and concrete blocks once a while for fun but not much else. I hate seeing all the videos where some one claims to hit super hard because they broke several boards or even bricks. This does NOT mean you can hit an opponent with such power. Ever notice all the time people need to set things up? How does this apply to a fight. It simply does not. Impressive at times but still just a show. Yes it can be fun but never take it too seriously. If your school requires it you have to do it but it still doesn't prove much. This is a simple truth.

Answer 2

I don't think that breaking as a training method is all that great. Unless you're doing multiple breaks every time you train, it won't really "toughen the striking tools". Such "toughening" is caused by micro-fractures in the bones that, when healed, become more dense. Unless you're using impact to create micro-fractures on a regular basis, any benefits you get will be temporary. Hitting other striking tools, such as the makiwara, heavy bag (punching bag), or wall bag on a regular basis for an extended period of time would be more beneficial to this process than breaking a board every now and then.



I also think the accuracy and power of a technique can be tested on the kicking shield, focus mitts, heavy bag, double-end bag, or Thai pads without the need to waste money on construction materials that don't get used for their original purpose. All the striking pads I listed above are reusable, and with a good "feeder" are great for developing the attributes you're describing.



The only thing breaking is good for, exclusive to it, is a "wow, that's cool" factor. A PSI meter on a heavy bag is a better indicator of power than breaking some pine boards, but actually shattering something is more visually impressive. It's great for demonstrations because of that, and gives the student a visual, if somewhat inaccurate, idea of how powerful they are. I say inaccurate because, unless you're fighting someone made out of boards and bricks, the sensation to using your techniques on a person isn't the same. People are very durable, composed largely of water, and have far more curved surfaces than straight lines. The perfect inanimate object for breaking techniques would be a ballistics jell dummy.



In the end, not a fan. I've seen some awesome demos, but for the attributes you're trying to build, modern striking equipment works better, lasts longer, and is cheaper in the long run.

Answer 3

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Answer 4

I see it as a teaching method and not good or bad in itself. I think it builds confidence in some people and adds a bit of a wow factor in training. It is not difficult to break a board but it does impress a lot of parents and kids are proud when they do. Noithing at all wrong with that.



There are a lot of tricks to make it easier (you can hold it with the grain on the far edges or heat them up to make them brittle) so it doesn't really say a lot about power. With bricks they usually put spacers between them on the far edges to make they are easier to break. Im not saying it's bad just that it is more about showmanship than anything else.



That being said: I love the break they do in Taekwon-do where a guy stands on the chair with a board held between two fingers. The student does a jump spinning backheel and hopefully the guy on the chair is left with half a board dangling in his fingers. It looks great and shows quite a bit of athletic ability to pull it off.

Answer 5

I always thought it was more meditative and a form of a concentration exercise than anything pertaining to actual form or skill.. That is not to say I hate the arts that don't break or hate the arts that do, I take it as the ones that break use it as another exercise and the ones that don't fill that time with other things, not necessarily needed, but other focus exercises or sparring drills.





I know that breaking isn't hard, I know it isn't about fighting ability.. I have never had a class that broke, but I never thought of it as a prerequisite to a Mcdojo either.. different instructors/senseis have different philosophies.



In all practicality it doesn't matter if your dojo breaks or not.. it simply helps a practitioner to set aside time to focus and concentrate on a task at hand.. much as someone would before a competition or possibly (if time) a real fight.. if a dojo doesn't practice breaking it fills this need with another exercise with the same function. Plus the visual aspect of seeing a goal reached (i.e. watching the board break as you kick or punch it) helps your confidence and esteem at least a little bit.

Answer 6

I used to break boards in the Chung Do Kwan class I was in. I have broken flaming concrete patio blocks and enough lumber to build a small tree house. While impressive looking, and great for demos, it has nothing to do with Martial arts. I have never in my entire life been attacked by a board. It really has limited benefits, power can be demonstrated just as effectively on a heavy bag. Toughening of hands and feet can be accomplished much more effectively with a makiwara. Both of these methods do not carry the same risks as breaking. When done properly breaking does not damage the fist or foot, but one small mistake can lead to serious damage. In my opinion the benefits or just not worth the risk.

Answer 7

What is the benefit? In the end what do you accomplish? Sure you can break boards using a variety of techniques that looks good but I have found over the years that boards don't fight back.



I know some styles like to practice this art and it makes for a good show. There are also a lot of fighting styles of karate that don't train in breaking boards. What ever turns your wheel is what you do. I just don't do it and in the style I teach I have yet to see any one practice breaking boards either in the states of in Japan. Again I guess it is what ever trips your trigger.

Answer 8

Is breaking a board really goin to help you for self defence? This can also damage your hand so therefore some martial arts dont want their class doing this. As with everything it can just depend on the instructor, if you are fighting in tournaments, (whatever..) and you are wearing mitts or gloves, then why is breaking a board going to help you with that, board breaking is very old fashioned and would have been left behind in a lot of gyms.

Answer 9

Board breaking is unfortunately one of those cons that are so common that they're accepted as a factual demonstration of an amazing feat.



Assuming a 12"x12"x1" board of #3 pine (which is brittle when dry, but still makes a nice hard knocking sound) takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 - 200 lbs of force to break. An average boxer's fist lands with upwards of 700 lbs of force. The same force, focused into a smaller area allows less area to absorb the shock. An average person, putting their body weight behind a strike will be able to break through the board with the grain (you'll notice how often the boards are cut sidelong to the grain so they break with the grain of the wood).



Breaking boards, which do not move, are not necessarily representative of your capabilities in striking a person. The benefit of board breaking comes largely from the confidence boost it gives the student, which is invaluable, but can be gained from other methods as well. Breaking things is not necessarily optimal.

Answer 10

I'm not too worried about being able to break boards.

I can see the idea behind it testing the power of your strikes and such but boxing has some of the hardest punches around and no one bothers to break boards with it.

As Bruce Lee said, 'Boards don't hit back.'

Answer 11

the reason for this is that when the idea of the need for martial arts originated (all came from korea by the way and migrated via kuden (spoken word) to the other asian countries). There was a need for warriors to train themselves to be hard as nails in every way. The techniques were more thought to actually break armor with a punch or kick. To my knowledge other than myth no armor was made from materials that a fist could break (no - armor was never made from bamboo or wood that is pure BS).

In our world today, the paradigm has shifted. Such conditioning of hands and feet are proven to cause problems later in life. We don't wear armor in our everyday lives and the body armor that is made today simply cannot be broken with the human hand- period, Breaking boards and such is also not a test of ones ability to perform well in a self defense situation. In most cases I have seen it is a parlor trick that is done with some level of selection and preparation of the materials to be broken. for instance, boards are always broken at the length of the grain of the wood and some times these boards are baked to make them more brittle. at expositions I also have seen where chopsticks or pencils are placed between the boards. this is a trick of physics that allows the force of top board struck first to continue on through the subsequent boards. Bricks, tiles etc can also be baked or heated with a torch to make them more brittle as well.

In any case breaking things is more a test of timing, speed, and distance- NOT power. In TKD (in which I have trained for many years) Speed is the focused key point to breaking. it is all a simple matter of physics.

the methods that teacher employ today are strictly to form a level of confidence in student that tells them that oif you throw this kick or punch this way you can break something- yes even bones - usually ribs are easiest and equivalent to the strength of a pine board.

In the art I have studied for 13 years now we do not break things. For we prefer to take better care of our bodies and be able to do things beyond our formative years with our limbs that require fine motor skills. like painting, or even writing and playing instruments. Such training today is not practical and is thought to be somewhat mundane. However, the use of makiwara will condition the hands to where if you throw a punch to the head of someone you will not break you hand in doing so. However, finding softer targets to hit and do damage are easier and breaking the weaks spots in the human physiology is also easier like the joints for instance, Neck, shoulder, elbow, wrist, fingers knees, ankles toes are all good easily accessible targets much more so than the chest where these techniques may have been theoretically useful back in that century. Besides the Do on armor was generally very thick and could not be broken by human hands either. th ebest that one could hope to attain would be to transfer the shock of a punch through the armor to do damage to the internal organs of an adversary- this also could be a myth as well. hope this helps with the understanding of where these ideas came from and explains just how useless it is in our society today.

Answer 12

Wow.. some crazy answers here.



Consider this, sport scientists have taken various athletes and measured their lbs of force for a punch, kick, etc.



The ones that top the list are generally professional fighters (pro boxers, pro MMA fighters, Muay Thai etc.) and generally have never broken a board in their life.



Board breaking is a good measure of commitment to a strike, and it is a confidence builder. But it doesn't make you hit any harder. Good mechanics and repetetion does that.



Technique and power results you gain far more from hitting a heavy bag then you do any board. One because the bag has some give to absorb your power. Two because you slowly train your brain to allow you to hit harder.



You see a major hurdle in striking hard is your brain's automatic reflex to prevent you from injuring yourself. Unbeknownst to you, your brain will only let you hit so hard, it is going to pull power off. The more you hit objects, the more you condition the brain to put more and more power behind it because it realizes that X amount of force isn't going to injure you.



Hitting hard objects takes WAY longer to develop this, because by nature you aren't going to hit a hard object with enough force training wise to build this right away, or you will hurt yourself and put yourself further back.. for example, you can't hit a brickwall as hard as you can a heavy bag.. your brain will not allow you. Furthermore you can hit the heavybag repeatedly, the brick wall you are only going to get a good hit in, cause yourself some pain and possible injury. As a result, your brain is going to automatically take even more power off the next time you try to hit that hard object, since it learned that last time hitting with X amount of force caused pain.



It's the reason they start with easy breaks. Because it is a confidence builder. Give me a room full of people and in 20 minutes I can have every man, woman, and child able to break a board. It's a popular motivational speaker trick.



Striking hard objects that such as bricks doesn't condition your striking areas, at least not practically. You gain way more by hitting something that has some resistance but still has give and allows you to hit it as hard as you can without injury.



Some of the hardest striking styles do not ever hit hard objects other than people. Kyokushin Karate spends a whole lot of time punching other people, their power is in mechanics and practical ability from sparring.



Muay Thai fighters use heavy bags.. that whole banana tree bit is from when heavy bags weren't around.. banana trees by the way are soft. That is why they are used, not because they are hardcore and going around kicking oak trees. It is because banana trees have soft bark and lots of give. A lot like a heavy bag.



Boxers hit heavy bags, pads, and people's head.



I think breaking serves a purpose for confidence building with kids, and maybe some adults. Personally I think any time spent attempting to break is much better spent sparring. You will gain far more confidence as well as practical ability in actually utilizing techniques, developing timing, and learning to get a feel for openings in defenses, and your own openings.



The confidence from knocking the wind out of an opponent, or sending him flying with a kick is far greater then the confidence gained from breaking a piece of wood. The lessons learned with it are also far greater in practical skill.



Unless of course you find yourself being assailed by boards, bricks, and tiles regularly.



Just my opinion.

Answer 13

It is not that some styles do or don't break boards. It is that some instructors don't feel it is justified, while others do. Some of the Taekwondo organization have made it part of their requirements.



I grew up believing that breaking was necessary. now after more than four decades of training, and thousands of breaks, I no longer see any relevance to it. Everyone is welcome to their beliefs. I however have seen many people that can break well, but can't fight well. what good is being able to break well and not being able to fight?





EDIT:



Barry D .... you obviously are very misinformed about Karate. Your statements about Karate vs. Taekwondo are ridiculous. Please refrain from spewing comments that are based on no amount of real knowledge or facts.





EDIT: Often I don't agree with "Chris b" on things. But his answer is a very good one as far as I'm concerned. So, I gave him a thumbs up for a great answer...



...

Answer 14

Breaking boards is just a waste of wood.

Answer 15

yeah dude tkd is awesome for breaking demonstrations

karate dont do it because they do not match the amazing power of tkd

most karate styles i have seen are boring and not very exciting.

i have seen tkd masters break blocks of ice with there shins, concrete with there head ,smash roof tiles with bare fist, break multiple boards with flying kicks , it is amazing to see..

tkd is modern martial art compared to karate and much more science influenced.

oh and i love all the amazing kicks in tkd that no other style has.

i know they say boards dont hit back in other styles but they r missin the point -it is about seeing the destruction your technique can cause when done like u say, i mean if u can break 10 roof tiles with a downward punch imagine what that wud do to somebodies face ha .

good question man