kata question...what do you think?

Question

i was once told that during a kata/form, every movement serves purpose. I started to think about the opening of the katas i were taught and the openings of many other katas of all other martial arts...and i started to think " those movements of raising the hands in a slow and concentrating mannor, what might it mean to others?"

what do you think? i'll post examples

*in some instances, they express more than just "ready stances" or transitional movements...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKXrATefSQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IGC--9E7H8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkV_2EWCSJY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUjqI3W31g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4vZnGwAac&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ut4s-6KfSc

Answer 1

Good thought. I don't need to see the videos you posted to tell you that the hand positions and what appear to be formalities at the beginning of Kata are in fact self-defense applications too. For instance in Naihanchi the hands are open. They overlap in front of the chest then both move downward until pointing at the floor. There are many applications for that move. In some chines forms the right fist is held in the palm of the open left hand. That too has martial applications. Every Kata that has opening or bowing moves other than simply bowing with your hands at your sides is in fact indicating actual self-defense applications.





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Answer 2

You are correct, about the openings having functionality. The only parts of kata that don't have a real physical function are the hand SYMBOLS that some arts make before and after a form is performed. These serve a spiritual purpose and moral purpose. There are many different definitions for each hand symbol, depending on the martial art and religious beliefs, and that can lead to an endless debate, going back into the fuzzy history of martial arts (because it will lead there and the very origins are lost to history).



The 'preparatory' stances as some arts call them, and the arm movements, and hand postures leading into the kata are very functional and serve a self defense purpose.



EDIT -



Just so you understand what I mean by hand symbols that don't have martial application. Here's a link to a mudra from Aikido:

http://griffithaikido.com/brisbaneyoga.html



This hand movement is very much a martial application:

http://www.sonieshine.com/Sonie_mudra_web.jpg



EDIT- Shiro Kuma



You're right about Ueshiba Morihei, being of the Omoto Kyo sect of Shinto. While there were a few body rituals that had the same goal as mudra from the Buddhist paths they were by and large different, or just non-existent in Aikido.



However, since the mudra are a religious ideal, I have seen them employed in several schools and during many of the various demonstrations I've been to. Which isn't really much of a surprise as the art has grown, and is bound to cross into people still following the more esoteric Buddhist sect (mikkyo), or are from another Koryu art, before teaching Aikido.



The particular picture I posted was the first real mudra that I saw when I looked them up for something to reference. Everything else was Naruto garbage, and I couldn't post something like that where people who are so impressionable can see and use as fact. (Even though, some of the mudra are based in reality.)



I have always found mudra to be interesting, and pointless at the same time. Really, its all based off of religion. Although, as I'm writing this, I get to thinking that mudra is prayer, so depending on who you pray to, a quick hand gesture may be better than reciting a long paragraph when faced with danger... hmm



One funny thing about it is that the most well known 'old school' (as a real Koryu) Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu still practices the use of mudra, even to the point of displaying mudra in the middle of some of its drills and kata.



... Something funny and circumstantial with mudra again is the national part of my system Shuri Ryu. The head instructors are mostly strong Christians, and yet they teach and perform the mudra before every kata, and demonstration. They know the meaning of each hand symbol too. And yet, they pray in Christianity before every class and event.

Answer 3

In some of the formal kata in aikido, especially the weapon kata (since they more closely resemble the kata in karate and other arts in that they are trained as a sequence of techniques), some parts are done slowly for added emphasis; a reminder to pay attention to the details. And yes, every single motion serves a purpose. In the standard jo-kata in aikido, even the way the jo is held at the beginning, and the first motion to raise the jo to a striking position is meant to block or parry an incoming strike.



@Aaron J:

By the way, I've never heard about mudra in aikido. Some say because aikido's spiritual philosophies and practices come from the Omoto-kyo religion instead of Buddhism that influenced the koryu arts. Do you have any more info about this?

Answer 4

The movements from the moment you stand at attention to begin the kata starting from the bow, until the last breath - all have a martial application.



You're right! They are more than just "ready" stances. In fact, there are no "ready stances".



Do yourself a favor and keep thinking that way.



The names of the kata also give you an idea of the character of the techniques.

Answer 5

You are correct in your assumptions and that even the openings have a meaning or function to them some of which I have been taught while others I have not. Your basic opening for instance where breathing is coordinated with first fast and then slow hand motion is for a student to clear their mind and relax their body somewhat so that they can perform the subsequent movements in the kata more easily and with good speed and power. This also has some basis in actual application when you think about a fighter warming and loosening up but then relaxing when he gets in the ring or just before getting into the ring so that he can move more quickly and execute things more easily with speed and power rather than being to tight or to lose.



Some of the openings are connected to the name and meaning of it and the kata like what you see in Kankodai or Basai while also helping a person to mentally and physically prepare themselves for executing it with the best blend of speed, power, and technique. If you know kata at a high level you can tell when someone is forcing something and does not have the best blend of speed, power and technique and that they are to tight or lack the skill to execute it better. At other times they may be to loose and their execution sloppy. I liken a well performed kata to a Swiss watch. Everything is precise and fits very finely with everything else in it, well executed with good speed,power and technique, while always controlling your body and balance and movement down to the smallest detail. Preparing yourself mentally and physically to accomplish this is all part of performing it at a higher level and requires mental discipline as well as physical ability and skill to do so.



In closing when I used to compete I could do my kata that I used for competition with little or no effort because I knew it so well and could even go out and perform it at a very high level with no practice and most people could not tell the difference from that and if I had practiced some the week prior to that national tournament. However I could tell the difference within myself and so sometimes competing became more of competing within myself and for myself rather than for rating points, money, and the prestige of winning.



Most schools and instructors don't teach and train their students to this level and only teach them the motions and movements and they then learn and do at a level something less than they actually could otherwise. Part of martial arts is striving to reach your fullest potential and the highest level of execution, and understanding of technique and knowledge of it. Students that are only taught motions and movements and the name of something and nothing else will never reach that level. A student like yourself that thinks and looks beyond that and asks a question to better understand something is partly on his way to reaching that next higher level.

Answer 6

You are correct in believing that every move has a purpose. For instance in the style that I study Matsubayashi Ryu, Naganime when doing Pinan Shodan can be seen if you pay attention making a simple turn of his fist inwards. In the other pinan kata he makes a different gesture with his fist. They represent different techniques. This is an indication of a wrist grab leading to a joint lock. Pugspaw mention naihanchi. You can see the left hand over right. This tells us that there is a joint lock right there.



I recall when being taught to chamber our hands I thought this was just preparing us to get ready to do an attack. But I have since learned that it really is not a chamber. There are different applications for this technique. Some are really nasty. I like those the most.

Answer 7

My goodness. You either have quite a bit of training or just happen to have a very good eye for picking out those examples. They are, each one, very well done and beautiful examples of their respective arts. Bravo.



I believe all movements included in kata/forms/poomsae have a significant meaning and/or purpose. I will not venture to guess the meanings of those examples which are outside of my personal experience or training. My guesses would merely be guesses based on my own style experiences and the purposes our movements serve.