Question about WTF style TKD?

Question

This is LONG, but I have to explain the question a bit:

I see a LOT of bashing of it. I started out in Japanese Karate and made my way to Sandan (3rd dan). Then I had about 8 years of no training and when I came back there was a WTF school near my home. Now I had heard bad things, and was skeptical but a friend stronly encouraged me to check it out. Here is what I have seen
1. The training is damned hard. Among adults injuries occur from time to time, no one makes it even to blue belt without several minor injuries. Just last night the adult class began with a warm up of 100 pushups and 100 situps, then the actual class was hard enough that two lower ranked people had to stop and sit out. They just could not keep it up. We have former football players, police officers, military vets, etc.

2. I dont' see any 'giving away' of rank. There is a belt test this Saturday. I have personally seen three people told this week that they cannot test, they are not ready. Yes there are some child black belts, but they all have spent 4+ years training.

3. I don't do the WTF style tournaments, mostey because I was doing open tournaments for years and that is what I am used to, and frankly I am too darned old for the full contact knockout stuff that goes on at WTF tournaments (yes I said full contact knockout). But I have watched them and I can tell you that
a. The fighting is continuous, not point (points are totalled, just like boxing but no stop at the point)
b. Yes you can punch, just not to the head (I don't like that)
c. These people are hitting and kicking HARD. Knockouts happen at every tournament. I have never seen anyone told 'excessive contact'. A knockout is a valid win.

So what I am asking is this: I bashed the WTF TKD for years...then I found a legit WTF TKD school (the owner is a 7th dan and travels to Korea every year, he has a 5th dan who is korean assisting him) and I did not see ANY Of the things I had heard claimed about WTF. I have grown to like it, and stayed long enough to get my 1st Dan (in 2006) and am looking forward to a 2nd dan test in the next 6 months (and contrary to popular claims, WTF has time MINIMUMs. You must wait a MINIMUM of 1 year from 1st to 2nd, 2 from 2nd to 3rd, 3 from 3rd to 4th...you cannot have 5th before age 35 no matter if you started at age 4, etc.)

So I have to ask: how many of you bashing WTF, have been to a legit WTF school? What are you basing your comments on? Are you sure you are looking at WTF and not ATA when you form your opinions? Are you sure it is a real Kukkiwon certified WTF school and not just some guy saying he is WTF?

Answer 1

I've never said anything against TKD. I myself took traditional Chung Do Kwan in a WTF dojang. The only problem I have with TKD is that it has become too much about competition. I like to stick to combat oriented arts. But with the proper training, any martial art can be used in real life.

Answer 2

It really depends upon the age range of the class and the fitness level of the class. If it's a class with loads of youngsters, then it's not going to be that hard. Mostly warm up like the following



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN5xJr-LpKI



Giving away of belts might have been done in the past, but you can suspect that the taekwondo boards have been getting harder on the dan trainers. Sometimes there's a minimum time needed before you can advance in a belt.





Not points based sparring? That's how we train but, continuously. Ultimately if your trainer like my trainer who visited korea just a last year, then they're more likely going to be harder, as they are in korea.



Hopefully I'll be a 5th dan by the 35 on the spot... (currently just passed by 9th kup).-



Although I take muay thai classes. And the difference between mauy thai and my tkd classes. Is that there's a lot of resting in the TKD, where as in the Mauy thai classes is a 1 minute rest, 3 minutes full on. Resting such as last week we were doing kick exercises and warm up, and rather than doing it continuously, it was in a line, kinda like a relay race. Where as I'd prefer to be kicking constantly.



Since you mention "not protecting head". I didn't have a head protector (haven't bought one, and everyone took the ones available), I was using my hands like in Mauy thai. But I got scolded at for not moving away from the kick. Basically you don't want to block your head in tkd, you want to do as Amir Khan, keeping your hands out and dodging.



Nah, I'm not someone who'd bash WTF TKD... then again I have a reasonably excellent motivating 5th dan sabonim, who after visiting korea is pushing us to learn korean when it comes to passing our exams.



All I need is another class in my town.

Answer 3

To be honest im sure there may be some good tkd schools but i know about 3 black belts in tkd and they cant defend themselves for **** i no a kid that was a purple belt and couldnt even throw a correct punch they went to umac (worst school in us) and some other place but thats my experience with it, my dad was black belt in kyokushin he told me tkd guys were just fancy but no effective and could not handle leg kicks. But he said there was one tkd school where guys were well trained. I really don't like it to be honest.

Answer 4

Wasn't me. I have often said it is the individual school. WTF was the first to introduce the traditional TKD to the world. We still teach it the traditional way with minimum between black belt ranks. Makes me laugh when I see some 20 year old 5th dan running a school as a master no mater the style. We tell our junior and adult students if you don't go home sore you ain't getting it done. If you ain't getting it done we won't give you a black belt. The exception is our handicapped programs. I have seen one good ATA school out of many duds. ATA focus is on sport TKD and Kids programs.

Answer 5

The primary issue with WTF style schools is the general focus on Olympic sparring which places an over emphasis on speed and encourages people not to protect their heads.

The training quality also varies very very widely from school to school with little or no quality control, and finally rank has no relationship to actual fighting ability. It's possible to receive a black belt without ever actually being in a competition.

The art has a poor track record when competing against other striking arts like Boxing and Muy Thai, but does better against Wing Chun and some Karate styles.

It's not the worst MA, but the emphasis on Olympic sparring means you aren't necessarily learning to fight effectively outside of that ruleset.



Edit for clarification:

I've competed in TKD competitions including WTF, ITF, and ATA. Because the WTF competitions are geared heavily towards olympic sparring they rarely protect their heads properly. Just watch the finals of any olympic TKD matches. Generally speaking the hands are at the waist, not protecting the head. It's not my opinion, it's not something I read on a website, it's the freakin OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL MATCHES. That's supposedly the best of the best at WTF style sparring.

Answer 6

As I stated to your earlier question, WTF sparring can be really brutal. If you ever question this, youtube some of the sparring events and watch the knockouts. Is it good for conditioning, absolutely. Is it good for self defense, sure some aspects of it, yes. My only concern with WTF sparring is the same as other sports is that you learn bad habits that would hurt you in a real life self defense situation, i.e. kicking only and punching only to the chest. If your opponent goes to the ground, backing off and worst of all, some WTF sparrers spar with their hands at their waists. You don't have to accept these bad habits though, you can do things your own way. WTF TKD combined with a throwing, grappling art like Judo would be very complete. This is in essence ITF TKD. Continuous sparring is more real life, so I prefer that. No one is going to say, "point, go to your corners" in real life.